Análisis de stats en FL-SH

    • UNIKORNIO200
      UNIKORNIO200
      Bronce
      Registro: 03-31-2009 Artículos: 4.391
      Oooh tremendo post y tremendos aportes, esto debería quedar fijo, para que cualquiera los consulte cuando quiera.

      Saludos!
    • SkaBron
      SkaBron
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-02-2009 Artículos: 827
      Muchas gracias a todos por vuestras aportaciones :) Esto comienza a coger forma, y todos nos beneficiaremos de ello. Yo de momento he aprendido algunas cosas que desconocía; pero aunque hemos dado algunos valores aproximados de referencia nos quedan aún dos grandes lagunas por cubrir, las stats de Turn c-bet % y de Fold to flop raise. Alguien sabe por donde van los tiros en estas stats?
    • karlosibz
      karlosibz
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-11-2009 Artículos: 9.128
      Ando algo liado con trabajos de la uni. En cuanto tenga un poco de tiempo que dedicarle, dejo mi stats y comento alguna cosa ;)
    • SkaBron
      SkaBron
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-02-2009 Artículos: 827
      original de SkaBron
      Muchas gracias a todos por vuestras aportaciones :) Esto comienza a coger forma, y todos nos beneficiaremos de ello. Yo de momento he aprendido algunas cosas que desconocía; pero aunque hemos dado algunos valores aproximados de referencia nos quedan aún dos grandes lagunas por cubrir, las stats de Turn c-bet % y de Fold to flop raise. Alguien sabe por donde van los tiros en estas stats?
      ¿Alguien puede solucionar esta duda? :)
    • Drizztfowl
      Drizztfowl
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-12-2009 Artículos: 5.583
      la cb en mi nivel de juego me gusta tenerlo entre 75-85, mas ya seria estar perdiendo BB, en cambio en niveles mas bajos me gusta mas un 80-90. En cuanto al fold tu raise flop, ni idea! pero supongo que entre 14-18
    • SkaBron
      SkaBron
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-02-2009 Artículos: 827
      original de Drizzfowl
      la cb en mi nivel de juego me gusta tenerlo entre 75-85, mas ya seria estar perdiendo BB, en cambio en niveles mas bajos me gusta mas un 80-90. En cuanto al fold tu raise flop, ni idea! pero supongo que entre 14-18
      ¿entre 14 y 18 está tu valor de fold to flop raise? Lo digo por poner una referenciaen esta stat.
    • SkaBron
      SkaBron
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-02-2009 Artículos: 827
      He editado otra vez el post inicial y he metido las stats que recomienda el leak buster limit por si a alguien le puede servir de orientación. Si alguien quiere añadir alguna stat más o modificar alguna de las existentes solo tiene que decirlo.
    • jaznar
      jaznar
      Bronce
      Registro: 01-02-2010 Artículos: 1.639
      original de karlosibz
      original de Drizzfowl
      no comparto muxos valores que has dado
      Capullo! Pues di cuales y porque xD

      Yo aporto opiniones:
      - AF, tiene ser superior a 2.1 e inferior a 2.8. Valor ideal entre 2.5/2.6.
      - El steal no lo tengo claro. Depende de nuestra capacidad de juego postflop
      - El 3b a mi me sale del 12% pero creo que es demasiado elevado, alguien lo sabe?
      - 4b 3.7-3.8% (yo tengo 3.4 de no capear siempre TT).
      - call al 3b ni idea. Creo que no es nada relevante. Sería el coldcall a un 3b pero no le doy la más mínima importancia a esta stat.
      - Fold to flop raise: 21.8% ni idea de que sea importante.
      - Sobre el turn c-bet depende de cada uno. Valores de 80-90% se pueden tener creo yo.
      -Fold to cbet: dejo este enlace: Cbet y fold cbet por calles
      - Creo que se puede tener el fold BB to steal más bajo sobre el 50%.

      Todo lo demás más o menos coincido.


      Karloibz, Turn c-bet 80-90% lo ves ok? Parece mucho, en microlimites es fácil que entren 3-4 jugadores en el turn. Quizá son stats para tus niveles o crees que en 0.1/0.2 también puede ser rentable?
    • parandabes
      parandabes
      Bronce
      Registro: 05-18-2008 Artículos: 3.209
      Hola, si alguien le apetece mandarme paquetes de manos por correo no tengo inconveniente en devolveros el informe sobre "stats" y sobre "position" que me pueda dar el LeakBuster para limit.
      Lo haría poquito a poco, pero como no somos muchos, no creo que sea agobiante.
      Luego podriamos ir publicando, si quereis, los pequeños informes que da y así entre todos hacernos una idea y debatir. De paso le doy alguna utilidad al soft :tongue:

      Ahí queda la sugerencia...

      El que quiera que me mande un zip a este correo; stilton17@yahoo.es

      Suerte a todo el mundo!!!
    • karlosibz
      karlosibz
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-11-2009 Artículos: 9.128
      Paran cuenta conmingo :)
      Ya te invitaremos a una cerveza o algo xD

      Ya te lo enviaré cuando pueda ;)
    • SkaBron
      SkaBron
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-02-2009 Artículos: 827
      Buena idea Paran ;) Es una buena manera de ayudar a los limiteros para sacar tajada al leakbuster (que no recomiendo a nadie hasta niveles altos). Yo iré poniendo todos los datos de stats que ofrece para que quien quiera analizar su juego pueda hacerlo sin tener que pagar por ello. Y analizando el juego de otros y debatiéndolo entre todos creo que podemos aprender mucho. Palante!
    • Drizztfowl
      Drizztfowl
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-12-2009 Artículos: 5.583
      no recomiendas hasta niveles altos? .... en niveles altos no sirve de nada ^^
    • karlosibz
      karlosibz
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-11-2009 Artículos: 9.128
      original de Drizztfowl
      no recomiendas hasta niveles altos? .... en niveles altos no sirve de nada ^^
      Te explicas? ?(
    • SkaBron
      SkaBron
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-02-2009 Artículos: 827
      Drizz, para mi niveles altos significa a partir de 1/2 =) Vamos, que tu para mi juegas en niveles estratosféricos. Y yo creo que si que sirve para niveles altos, porque muchos suben rápido ganando solo a base de agresividad pero cuando topan con rivales que se les adaptan bien esa agresividad se les vuelve en contra. Y no son solo stats sino que ayuda mucho a pulir el juego desde las ciegas y a aprender a jugar contra los diferentes tipos de jugadores a partir del analisis de tu BD. Esas pequeñas cosas pueden disparar tu winrate.
    • Drizztfowl
      Drizztfowl
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-12-2009 Artículos: 5.583
      bueno, otra vez subjetividad,para mi lo que juego no son niveles altos jaja, me referia a 50/100 o por hay, si lelgas a ese nivel tienes que aprender a interpretar lo que te dice el hm, vamos, que sabes hacer lo mismo que el leak buster pero sin el programa :P , a mi claro que me sirve, me lo comprare dentro de poco, pero tambien seria interesante aprender a interpretar las cosas sin la ayuda del programa.
    • karlosibz
      karlosibz
      Bronce
      Registro: 04-11-2009 Artículos: 9.128
      original de Drizztfowl
      bueno, otra vez subjetividad,para mi lo que juego no son niveles altos jaja, me referia a 50/100 o por hay, si lelgas a ese nivel tienes que aprender a interpretar lo que te dice el hm, vamos, que sabes hacer lo mismo que el leak buster pero sin el programa :P , a mi claro que me sirve, me lo comprare dentro de poco, pero tambien seria interesante aprender a interpretar las cosas sin la ayuda del programa.
      Eso es muy difícil de saber hacer. Los jugadores de poker profesionales se pasan meses enteros de descanso solo para revisar sus bases de datos. Creo que no estaría mal hacer un vídeo o algo por el estilo de unas premisas básicas para aprender a analizar el BD.

      Lo voy a poner el post de sugerencias :D
    • marcianoskate
      marcianoskate
      Bronce
      Registro: 08-22-2007 Artículos: 8.649
      original de karlosibz
      Paran cuenta conmingo :)
      Ya te invitaremos a una cerveza o algo xD

      Ya te lo enviaré cuando pueda ;)
      Yo los invito a cerveza cuando sea BM y vaya a europa a la fiesta :) (solo faltan 430k puntos :) )
    • parandabes
      parandabes
      Bronce
      Registro: 05-18-2008 Artículos: 3.209
      ANALISIS CON LEAKBUSTER DE MANOS .50/1 de CORRUNUS, PARTE I

      Me mando Corrunus unas 11K manos jugadas en 50-1 SH para que las metiera en el leakbuster. Pongo aquí los resultados que me da el programa sin valoraciones.

      Esta dividido en 3 partes: 1, de Stats Generales, 2, Analisis General por Posición y 3, Analisis detallado por Posición.

      Hay mucho dato, entonces lo que hago es poner un numerito en verde al lado de cada leak y después se puede eoncontrar el comentario del LeakBuster que tiene el mismo numerito.

      Ha si bastante laborioso, pero aparte del valor que pueda encontrarle Corrunus para su juego me pareció muy interesante tener todo ese montón de referencias a Stats correctas para que la comunidad limitera tenga unos datos donde apoyarse.

      He ido montando todo a ratitos y sin agobios espero que sea útil, aunque sea un poquito =)

      Como vereis hay unas casillas para cada Stat, una es el rango que LeakBuster considera bueno, otra el nº que Corrunus tiene respecto de ese Stat, otra es una bolsita que aparece más grande o más pequeña según se distancie del rango optimo del stat (si aparece es que hay un leak) y luego una especie de nota del 1 al 10.

      Los comentarios son en ingles, pero creo que no es muchisimo problema entender.

      1.- STATS GENERALES

























    • parandabes
      parandabes
      Bronce
      Registro: 05-18-2008 Artículos: 3.209
      ANALISIS CON LEAKBUSTER DE MANOS .50/1 de CORRUNUS, PARTE II

      ANALISIS GENERAL POR POSICION



      Your Agg% in the SB is currently too high. This may mean that you are 3-betting with too many marginal hands or that you are firing many hopeless bluffs post-flop. Review your hand histories and make sure that when you are bluffing there is good reason to expect that your opponent might fold. Your WTSD% in the SB is currently too low. You may be giving up with too many good high card hands and with weak pairs in situations where your opponent is likely to be bluffing. Your W$WSF from the SB is too low. You may be either folding a few too many hands that could showdown profitably, or you may be bluffing too seldom. Currently your check fold flop % is high. You may be throwing away too many marginal hands which you could use to profitably call a bet on the flop. When faced with a close decision, think about whether or not you usually expect to win more money when you make your hand, and whether or not you're likely to see two streets by calling just one bet. Currently your check-raise flop% is too low. This may mean that you are either bluffing too seldom or are not getting enough value out of marginal paired hands. Look for more opportunities to bluff on dry boards when your opponent holds a large range of hands. Also look for situations where your opponent is unlikely to have flopped a pair and where marginal pairs can be check-raised for value against high card hands. Your river call efficiency is too high. This may mean that you're missing out on showing down some profitable weak hands. This could be because you're folding earlier on or you're giving up to river bets too often.



      Your PFR% is too high. You may be raising too many moderate hands in limped pots which you should check. If you are frequently raising in the BB, when you are HU against a loose predictable SB who has open limped, this may not be a leak. You may be 4-betting too seldom from the BB. When an opponent's 3-betting range is wide, it can be okay to 4-bet with non-premium hands, especially if there's a good chance that you will be able to win the pot without a showdown. Your WTSD% in the BB is currently too low. You may be giving up with too many good high card hands and weak pairs in situations where your opponent is likely to be bluffing. Your W$WSF from the BB is a too low. You may be either folding a few too many hands that could showdown profitably, or you may be bluffing too seldom. Your flop aggression is too low. This may mean that you're bluffing too seldom on dry boards against steal raisers, or that you should be raising for value with a few more moderate strength hands when you're out of position.



      Your overall aggression percent is too low from early position. This is likely because you're not continuation betting enough, and not implementing enough betting from this position. You're currently not 3-betting enough from early position. While it's good to use discretion while 3-betting against players with tight ranges, you could probably play a few more hands profitably. Your WTSD% from early position is too low. You may be folding good high card hands too often in situations where your opponents are likely enough bluffing, so that calling down would be profitable. Your cold call percentage is too low. While you don't want to be cold calling very often from early position, you do want to look for opportunities against weak opponents to call with more marginal hands that you may fold against stronger opponents. When considering cold calling from early position, make sure that your opponents behind you are not over aggressive, and do not squeeze very often Currently your check-fold flop % is high. You may be throwing away too many marginal hands which you could use tp profitably call a bet on the flop. When faced with a close decision, think about whether or not you usually expect to win more money when you make your hand, and whether or not you're likely to see two streets by calling just one bet. Currently your check-raise flop% is too low. This may mean that you are either bluffing too seldom or are not getting enough value out of marginal paired hands. Look for more opportunities to bluff on dry boards when your opponent holds a large range of hands. Also look for situations where your opponent is unlikely to have flopped a pair and where marginal pairs can be check-raised for value against high card hands. Your river aggression is too low. You may be missing some third barrel bluffs in situation where your opponent is likely to call the flop and turn with a hand that will fold the river, or you may be missing some thin value bets. Your river call efficiency is too high. This may mean that you're not missing out on showing down some profitable weak hands. This could be because you're folding earlier on or you're giving up to river bets too often.



      You are 3-betting a too often from middle position. Since an early position player's range is usually quite tight, it will be difficult for you to win pots without a showdown. You should only be re-raising with hands that are ahead of your opponent's range. You may be 4-betting too seldom from middle position. While it's good to show discretion as to what hands you'll 4-bet against a tight 3-bettor, you could probably 4-bet a few more hands profitably. Your WTSD% from middle position is too low. You may be folding good high card hands too often in situations where your opponents are likely enough to be bluffing, so that calling down would be profitable. Currently your check-fold flop % is high. You may be throwing away too many marginal hands which you could use to profitably call a bet on the flop. When faced with a close decision, think about whether or not you usually expect to win more money when you make your hand, and whether or you're likely to see two streets by calling just one bet. Your river call efficiency is too low, meaning that you're probably showing down too many weak hands. This could mean that you need to make more laydowns on the river when it's very unlikely that your opponent's bluffing, or that you should be folding more weak hands on the earlier streets.





      Currently your overall aggression is too low from the CO. It's important to apply pressure to your opponents when you have position on them. Consider betting and attempting to steal a few more hands when it is checked to you. Your WTSD% in the CO is currently too low. You may be giving up with too many good high card hands and weak pairs in situations where your opponent is likely to be bluffing. Your W$WSF from the CO is too low. You may be either folding a few too many hands that could showdown profitably, or you may be bluffing too seldom. Currently your check-fold flop % is high. You may be throwing away too many marginal hands which you could use to profitably call a bet on the flop. When faced with a close decision, think about whether or not you usually expect to win more money when you make your hand, and whether or not you're likely to see two streets by calling just one bet. You may be continuation betting the turn too seldom. Pay attention to your opponents and the texture of the flop that they called. There are many types of boards where your opponent will likely call the flop with a hand that will fold to a turn bet. Your flop aggression is too low. You might be passing up some opportunities to raise or re-raise the flop with moderate hands and check back on the turn. You may also be miss the chance to raise the flop with a weak hand and force other players out of multi-way pots.



      Your aggression factor from the BTN is too low. You may be missing some turn and river continuation bets against players who will peel the flop with a wide range of hands. You may also be missing raises and re-raises with strong drawing hands that you should be trying harder to win the pot with. Your overall aggression from the button is too low. In position, you should consider betting a little more often, and bluffing slightly more often when your opponents don't show interest in the pot. You may be 4-betting too seldom from the Button. When an opponent's 3-betting range is wide, it can be okay to 4-bet with non-premium hands, especially if there's a good chance that you will be able to win the pot without a showdown. Your W$WSF from the BTN is too low. You may be either folding a few too many hands that could showdown profitably, or you may be bluffing too seldom. Currently your check-fold flop % is low. You may be calling the flop with too many marginal hands. Be sure to account for the pot size when calling with weak drawing hands, and be cognizant of whether or not your draw will often make the best hand. Your turn aggression is too low. You may be missing turn continuation bets in situations where your opponent would peel the flop with a very wide range of hands, or you may be missing some thin value-raises with strong but not excellent hands.



      ANALISIS CON LEAKBUSTER DE MANOS .50/1 de CORRUNUS, PARTE III

      ANALISIS DETALLADO POR POSICION

      SB









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      BB









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      EARLY









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      MIDDEL









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      CUTOFF









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      BUTTON







    • SPApoker
      SPApoker
      Bronce
      Registro: 06-23-2009 Artículos: 2.004
      Buahhh, impresionante tu labor como siempre paran!! Cuando tenga un rato y paciencia le echo un vistazo más a fondo. Gracias por la aportación.